Discussion about this post

User's avatar
Daniel Saunders's avatar

Rav Kook's view reminds me (lehvadil) of George Orwell's remark that some ideas are so stupid, only an intellectual could believe them.

I've said before that, regardless of the halakhic arguments, the ability of Haredim to watch other Jews fight and die for them without lifting a finger to help is a huge failure to meet the requirements of loving one's neighbour.

Expand full comment
David Derovan's avatar

A few comments are in order regarding the post about Natural Morality:

1. Rav Kook writes frequently about Mussar, in general, and מוסר טבעי, in particular. His assumption is that Mussar is a key factor in every aspect of Jewish life.

2. According to Rav Kook מוסר טבעי is also from God because, in creating the world, God "looked into the Torah and then created the world." Thus, the Torah Mussar is a layer of more refined Musar that is added to the foundation of מוסר טבעי, which itself is also divine.

3. In accusing the "gedolay HaDor" of the Chareidi world in Israel of a lack of מוסר טבעי and of Torah Mussar, you have missed a crucial element: Just as Rav Kook explains, מוסר טבעי and Torah Mussar are inherently divine. Thus, one's theological/Halachic viewpoint and understanding are linked to one's Mussar. The Charedi gedolim reject both theologically and halachically any legitimacy to Medinat Yisrael and to the non-Charedi Jews living in the Medinah. They, the Charedim, are the "real Jews." The rest of the Jews in Medinat Yisrael are not authentic Jews. Until these attitudes and beliefs change, the Charedim will not let their precious "boys" serve in the army. What will change their opinion? That will happen only when two things occur: (1) The Israeli Gov't ceases to support all Charedi institutions, period. (2) When the Chareidim discover that the America Charedi community will not and cannot support them.

Thank for your cogent article. Keep up the good work! from David Derovan

Expand full comment
31 more comments...

No posts