I completely agree and, as I commented last week, this type of thing is one reason why I don't affiliate with that community. Even aside from the political and moral implications, the assumption that God will do what we want, when we want it, is pure paganism. It's the antithesis of Judaism.
I give no credence to the idea that there is any "palestinian" right to any part of Israel.
Land records were kept.
They show 3 percent Resident Arab land ownership.
Two things seem likely regarding that miniscule percentage:
A) a percentage of that percentage likely earned the money to be landowners working for the Zionists, and...
B) A very substantial number of Arab Resident land owners almost certainly accepted Israeli citizenship if for no other reason than to preserve their holdings.
In light of the above, the fact that they are even still there now is actually bizarre and could only be achieved by the machinations of the fabled Deep State.
And a masterful job of Indoctrination has been done, to the extent that people who consider themselves aware as Directly Opposed to woke, who are full of Death Jab trivia and in all other contexts firmly convinced that the UN is a force for evil, condemn Israel instead of the Genocidal Muslims, of genocide.
And they believe everything negative they hear, including the absurd notion that the devastation at the Music Festival was wrought by the IDF.
It would not matter if by some miracle the average pal became de radicalized.
Oppression and Conquest and Religious Dominance through violent action is their religion.
There will be no transformation until God settles the score to His satisfaction at Har Megiddo.
I really see no other way.
Also, there is the issue of undeveloped petroleum under Gaza, which the pals cannot be allowed to claim as the land is not theirs.
It could mean virtual Independence for Israel, it belongs to Israel and the sooner Israel rids itself of the parasitic pals, the sooner those fields can be developed and Israel's security and independence greatly advanced.
One result of the Yom Kippur War was the rise of the Gush Emunim movement. In that sense, your essay could have been written 50 years ago.
From my seat in NY, I'm unsettled by two aspects of the contemporary religious zionist community - (a) its sense of triumphalism, which I think you deal with in your essay and (b) its sense of ethno-nationalist identity that, to me, is far too close to American christian nationalism (or other examples around the world - Putin's Orthodoxy, Orban's Catholicism, Modi's Hinduism) for comfort.
I’m still way too traumatized from 10/07 to think as clearly as you and Rabbi Slifkin have been able to articulate. I do recall the PLO being boxed in Beirut around 1982 and allowed to relocate to Tunisia. I recall the victory after 1967 and calls for population settlement then. I recall an entrapped Egyptian 3rd army in 1973. it would be nice for us for a change to not miss an opportunity to miss an opportunity. Jericho, kever רחל, Hebron examples of the country going in the wrong direction. Even today Egypt squawks at abandoning the peace treaty. The record of history is brutal. Can you be so sure that your ideas hold?
I cannot be sure of anything. But I'm reasonably certain that resettling Gaza would be extremely reckless and dangerous. That ship has sailed. The army should stay in Gaza for the foreseeable future, but that's not the same as reestablishing a permanent civilian Jewish presence there, given what we know about how the rest of the world will undoubtedly react.
First I appreciate your taking the effort to reply; that’s grounding. And I agree army needs to stay for the foreseeable future. there’s a double message in the big picture to me: if we are going to have peace then having a form of a Jewish presence should be a norm. And at a certain point we will need to figure out what is actually best for Israel in the best precise manner we can and the world will have to deal with that. For example, העם אם הגלן - it’s ours period & 7 June 1981 Osirak Opera. The world hated these events but as the late great statesman Menachem Begin said, “ if an enemy of our people says he seeks to destroy us, believe him. Don’t doubt him for a moment. Don’t make light of it. Do all in your power to deny him the means of carrying out his satanic intent.”
While it is interesting to hear your thoughts of what should not be done, it seems incomplete without a alternative course of action.
As to hurrying God, I don't believe that is possible, and I believe prophesy proceeds at it's own pace.
That being said, I rate the possibility of hundreds more years thin to non existent.
Child Trafficking, Fentanyl, Censorship, Transexual Advocacy, The Death Jab.
I believe things will continue in this direction until the fulfillment of Zechariah and Joel, not because anyone is especially childish but because the time is ripe.
I know it is not exactly a cheery thought, but all the alignments are rapidly moving into place...
Even Germany is re arming. That would have been unthinkable just a few years ago, and it is typical of the accelerated pace of prophetic pieces coming together.
I would be interested to hear specifically what you feel ought to be done instead.
Another 75 years of the people you feel we should be concerned about pouring billions into Gaza to attack Israel with isn't workable either.
Thank you for your comment, John. I don't think that it's a binary choice of resettling Gaza or withdrawing the army and allowing Hamas to retake power. I certainly agree that the Israeli army should have a long-term presence there, until (and if) the Gazan population no longer presents a credible threat. That might be a very long time, of course. But long-term military involvement is not the same as a renewed and permanent Jewish civilian presence in Gaza. So when you ask what should be done, the answers aren't always clear - but at least two aspects need to be Israeli military involvement, and not Israeli civilian residence.
I completely agree and, as I commented last week, this type of thing is one reason why I don't affiliate with that community. Even aside from the political and moral implications, the assumption that God will do what we want, when we want it, is pure paganism. It's the antithesis of Judaism.
Right or left, as a Conservative rabbi I find myself agreeing with you most of the time keep up the good work
I appreciate that, Alan, thank you!
Our essential difference is this:
I give no credence to the idea that there is any "palestinian" right to any part of Israel.
Land records were kept.
They show 3 percent Resident Arab land ownership.
Two things seem likely regarding that miniscule percentage:
A) a percentage of that percentage likely earned the money to be landowners working for the Zionists, and...
B) A very substantial number of Arab Resident land owners almost certainly accepted Israeli citizenship if for no other reason than to preserve their holdings.
In light of the above, the fact that they are even still there now is actually bizarre and could only be achieved by the machinations of the fabled Deep State.
And a masterful job of Indoctrination has been done, to the extent that people who consider themselves aware as Directly Opposed to woke, who are full of Death Jab trivia and in all other contexts firmly convinced that the UN is a force for evil, condemn Israel instead of the Genocidal Muslims, of genocide.
And they believe everything negative they hear, including the absurd notion that the devastation at the Music Festival was wrought by the IDF.
It would not matter if by some miracle the average pal became de radicalized.
Oppression and Conquest and Religious Dominance through violent action is their religion.
There will be no transformation until God settles the score to His satisfaction at Har Megiddo.
I really see no other way.
Also, there is the issue of undeveloped petroleum under Gaza, which the pals cannot be allowed to claim as the land is not theirs.
It could mean virtual Independence for Israel, it belongs to Israel and the sooner Israel rids itself of the parasitic pals, the sooner those fields can be developed and Israel's security and independence greatly advanced.
One result of the Yom Kippur War was the rise of the Gush Emunim movement. In that sense, your essay could have been written 50 years ago.
From my seat in NY, I'm unsettled by two aspects of the contemporary religious zionist community - (a) its sense of triumphalism, which I think you deal with in your essay and (b) its sense of ethno-nationalist identity that, to me, is far too close to American christian nationalism (or other examples around the world - Putin's Orthodoxy, Orban's Catholicism, Modi's Hinduism) for comfort.
I’m still way too traumatized from 10/07 to think as clearly as you and Rabbi Slifkin have been able to articulate. I do recall the PLO being boxed in Beirut around 1982 and allowed to relocate to Tunisia. I recall the victory after 1967 and calls for population settlement then. I recall an entrapped Egyptian 3rd army in 1973. it would be nice for us for a change to not miss an opportunity to miss an opportunity. Jericho, kever רחל, Hebron examples of the country going in the wrong direction. Even today Egypt squawks at abandoning the peace treaty. The record of history is brutal. Can you be so sure that your ideas hold?
I cannot be sure of anything. But I'm reasonably certain that resettling Gaza would be extremely reckless and dangerous. That ship has sailed. The army should stay in Gaza for the foreseeable future, but that's not the same as reestablishing a permanent civilian Jewish presence there, given what we know about how the rest of the world will undoubtedly react.
First I appreciate your taking the effort to reply; that’s grounding. And I agree army needs to stay for the foreseeable future. there’s a double message in the big picture to me: if we are going to have peace then having a form of a Jewish presence should be a norm. And at a certain point we will need to figure out what is actually best for Israel in the best precise manner we can and the world will have to deal with that. For example, העם אם הגלן - it’s ours period & 7 June 1981 Osirak Opera. The world hated these events but as the late great statesman Menachem Begin said, “ if an enemy of our people says he seeks to destroy us, believe him. Don’t doubt him for a moment. Don’t make light of it. Do all in your power to deny him the means of carrying out his satanic intent.”
While it is interesting to hear your thoughts of what should not be done, it seems incomplete without a alternative course of action.
As to hurrying God, I don't believe that is possible, and I believe prophesy proceeds at it's own pace.
That being said, I rate the possibility of hundreds more years thin to non existent.
Child Trafficking, Fentanyl, Censorship, Transexual Advocacy, The Death Jab.
I believe things will continue in this direction until the fulfillment of Zechariah and Joel, not because anyone is especially childish but because the time is ripe.
I know it is not exactly a cheery thought, but all the alignments are rapidly moving into place...
Even Germany is re arming. That would have been unthinkable just a few years ago, and it is typical of the accelerated pace of prophetic pieces coming together.
I would be interested to hear specifically what you feel ought to be done instead.
Another 75 years of the people you feel we should be concerned about pouring billions into Gaza to attack Israel with isn't workable either.
Thank you for your comment, John. I don't think that it's a binary choice of resettling Gaza or withdrawing the army and allowing Hamas to retake power. I certainly agree that the Israeli army should have a long-term presence there, until (and if) the Gazan population no longer presents a credible threat. That might be a very long time, of course. But long-term military involvement is not the same as a renewed and permanent Jewish civilian presence in Gaza. So when you ask what should be done, the answers aren't always clear - but at least two aspects need to be Israeli military involvement, and not Israeli civilian residence.